International team player attributes

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kofoed
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Postby kofoed » Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:09 am

excellent steve ... i want that spreadsheet robert....
can you get the substitutes stats as well? would be nice to see whether ra.hunt is better than mm.barrett....
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durban
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Postby durban » Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:12 am

Jaaaaaaaacob!!!!!

Hunt is soooooo much better than Barrett!!!

:)
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alkis21
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Postby alkis21 » Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:50 pm

Robert Swift wrote:Aggression determines how often players will do computer slides
Height affects the winning of headers
Weight is connected with the 'block tackle' - light players are easily pushed over
Resilience is how likely the player will be injured by a foul



Robert
You are right, I was completely off with Resilience (for some reason I had Agility in mind) but are you sure about aggression & weight? I could swear that weight is not important and that the 'block tackle' you're referring to is determined by Aggression.
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Too bad the attributes are not described in the manual. We need Steve to help us here!
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Postby Robert Swift » Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:21 am

The question of who wins the block tackle is extremely complex.

James and I spent years trying to understand whether this was driven by one of the visible attributes or maybe a hidden one.

This is what we concluded.....

There are certain things that definitely impact on player toughness.

Players with low tackling <100 will fall over easily.
Players <60kg will fall over easily.

There is a definite corelation. For this reason, James and I used to train people as defenders at the end of the season to 'toughen them up', so their Tackling would increase year on year. There's nothing worse than a team of weakling A.Lindsays that fall over at the slightest contact. Also we would avoid buying anyone <60kg whatever their stats.

< However >

We have made a few players with high weight and high tackling that seem only to have very average toughness, even sometimes disappointing. Therefore there has to be another variable that comes into play. Is it Height? No - some of the toughest players are medium sized. Is it aggression? We found NO corelation between tough players and high aggression.

Added to this there are certain 'supermen' in our PM teams. The first is J.R.Cross (Midfielder) from Liverpool, and the second is A.Chapman (Forward) from Chelsea. These players do not EVER fall over from block tackles. They push all other players over - except each other where neither falls over.

Both 'supermen' have fairly average size and tackling. We cannot see any of their attributes that is 200.

Our last theory was that, in fact, every team of say 20 players has an order of toughness. One, random, member of the squad is a 'superman'. Take R.Simpson from the International team. Does he ever fall over? Not that I see. Then there is basically a ranking, with descending toughness. So A.Lindsay and R.Curtis are somewhere near the bottom of this. I've tried to spot what corelation there is in the scores shown by Camber, and it appears that the (bracket) number may be relevant. Certain of the weaker players tend to have a high score in this while the tougher ones have lower scores.

Therefore I'm dying to know what this (brackets) number is.

Also, perhaps Camberman could dissect my PM teams (downloadable from this site) and maybe find what is so unique about Cross and Chapman?

By the way, I did ask D1N0 in a mail about this once. He basically said that he couldn't remember anything about it or be arsed to look in the code. His guess was that it was due to Height and Weight which we know to be incorrect.
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Postby manicx » Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:06 am

I love this topic. Pure KO2 science. I have even elevated this to the Atari ST. I've found a program that allows you to edit players in a GUI and upload the teams back to the KO2 floppy disk. I used to have this in shareware back in the 90's but I've found a registered version. It is impressive that not only you can edit the attributes of the players, but once you edit them it makes a check and recommends whether this player is good for defence, midfield, or attack. It can actually be really good to test the figures from the original Amiga game using this ST program and then make the ultimate starting line up...
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Postby durban » Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:09 am

I've always wanted to know what the triggers are between a shot and a pass.

For example if the player has a good passing ability but 0 shooting how does the code work out whether a shot or a pass is meant.

Say for example you are on the edge of the box and attempt a cross, does the code know its a cross or does it think its a shot.

Tell you what, you can say a lot of things about Dino but he can't half code some clever footy stuff.

The CPU is a bit naff at times but it has immensely clever AI, especially the way it can read a shot or a turn and attempt to make a sliding tackle.
I beat the keeper last night and shot and a split second before the defender slid, ie it knew the point I was going to shoot before I shot!!! FFS!!!
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Abyss
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Postby Abyss » Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:39 am

durban wrote:I've always wanted to know what the triggers are between a shot and a pass.

For example if the player has a good passing ability but 0 shooting how does the code work out whether a shot or a pass is meant.

Say for example you are on the edge of the box and attempt a cross, does the code know its a cross or does it think its a shot.

Tell you what, you can say a lot of things about Dino but he can't half code some clever footy stuff.

The CPU is a bit naff at times but it has immensely clever AI, especially the way it can read a shot or a turn and attempt to make a sliding tackle.
I beat the keeper last night and shot and a split second before the defender slid, ie it knew the point I was going to shoot before I shot!!! FFS!!!


I'm no KO scientist, but I believe that a pass is the move in which you trap the ball, point the stick to a direction and depress the fire button. Everything else is a shot. So the cross you refer to is really a shot.
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manicx
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Postby manicx » Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:02 am

If you are not a scientist then why is there a D.R. (Doctor?) before your name in the Greek version of KO2? This sounds like a scientist to me! :lol:
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Postby durban » Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:05 am

:lol: @ Manicx

Erm, so If I play the ball from my own box to my winger with a lofted ball its actually a shot as far as the program is concerned?

How runty is that!!! :lol:

M
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Abyss
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Postby Abyss » Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:16 am

manicx wrote:If you are not a scientist then why is there a D.R. (Doctor?) before your name in the Greek version of KO2? This sounds like a scientist to me! :lol:


FFS R. Nikos! FFS!
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Postby GingerPete » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:32 pm

I always had resilience down as the attribute that helped prevent players falling over to be honest. And still believe it so?
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Postby gdh82 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:37 pm

I'm so glad you posted to this gem-of-a-thread, Pete - I haven't come across it before!

Must link to it from the improve your skills thread!!!!
Last edited by gdh82 on Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Steve Camber » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:03 pm

GingerPete wrote:I always had resilience down as the attribute that helped prevent players falling over to be honest. And still believe it so?

Falling over is purely down to tackling (defending) skill.

Just had a look at the code, and the resilience stat seems to be used to decide if a fouled player becomes injured.
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