Video - Alkis Vs Gianni @ UKC07

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Steve Camber
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Video - Alkis Vs Gianni @ UKC07

Postby Steve Camber » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:18 pm

Alkis and Gianni fight to win the league.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 0437200664

I think the sound is out of sync. I'll sort it later, this will do for now :D

EDIT :
The replacement:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 2442465564
Last edited by Steve Camber on Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bounty Bob » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:36 pm

Just been watching, great stuff. Gianni's first goal was the lockout one I was remembering in the other thread but it was from a freekick. Alkis changed to lockout and Gianni scored.
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Postby Abyss » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:05 am

Nice and tense! Unfortunately the sound ruins the watching experience a lot... I mean... I want to hear Gianni's cursing when watching his games.
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Postby Steve Camber » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:07 am

Abyss wrote:Nice and tense! Unfortunately the sound ruins the watching experience a lot... I mean... I want to hear Gianni's cursing when watching his games.

I'll sort the sound, it was a rush job last night!
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Postby gdh82 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:38 am

Looking forward to watching this later! :) Thanks, Steve, for posting so soon...
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Postby Torchiador » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:20 am

:shock: Listening to the audio, seems to hear a satanic sect! :? Steve, may you restore the right audio?
second thing: may you upload the avi file on the web? if you need some space you know you can ask to me without problems!
Really tense game! we made many mistake because the actions was really closed and of course, because of the tense situation.
I think that the game was decised by 'incident':
first gol of Alkis thanks to the goalkeeper, my firts and second gol thanks to auto/unintended slides(Alkis suffered the damage), second gol of alkis I was placed better then him in defence but I made a really shit defensive header.
3rd Alkis's goal was a midfield lob but the shot remained low but the fucking keeper leave the ball enter in the goal the same (great performance of my goalkeeper! :)
This one is just for the goal situation, of course we made a great battle in midfield and it was a really tense tense game! I loved it! it is a pity that we played 1 time only in the whole week end! next time in Milan or Athens I hope to make again a great best of 10/20!
Only one thought: on English soil I have got my worse stats against the Greeks: 1 game with Nikos (final game of London International '06: a draw, 2 games with Spyros(WC2006): 1W-L, 1 game with Alkis(UKC's 07): 1D.
AVG POINTS per game: 1,25 :(
Better stats on Italian soil :)
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Postby alkis21 » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:56 pm

Before the game began, I didn't give it much thought. I never really adjust my way of playing to the opponent, no matter how good he is. I believe my normal way of playing is good enough to beat anyone, if I eliminate mistakes and if I am focused in front of the goal. I just had the vague idea that if I was going to win that, I'd need to do it with defense; my offense is not good enough to challenge Gianni, and 5-3-2 is only one of the reasons.

A good start is very good for one's confidence, and I had an excellent one by taking the lead after only 12 seconds from kick off. Unlike Gianni, I don't think the keeper was to blame for that goal; Fisher can't ever defend a header from that close.

In such a tough game, you need to make the best out of your chances in front of the goal, and I failed to do that on two occasions: 3.19 to go in the first half, and (especially) 2.02.
I think that people who are interested in getting ideas by watching others play should watch this match carefully. The more impressive moments are the movements Gianni and I perform when we don't have the ball, in order to get our players to the optimum position. Check for example at 3:59 in the first half, how I realize that my player in the midfield is too slow and rapidly set him aside so that my defender intercepts the ball. Or watch how Gianni does a little parallel walk at 2:15 in order to give his attacker the chance to enter the box and get that pass. Now watch how I failed to do the right thing in Gianni's first goal; I was controlling the wrong player. I should have moved him out of the screen so that Cox would have the chance to go for the header. It's those small things that look random but are really what makes the difference between a very good and an excellent player.

0.23 to go in the first half, and I intercept the ball in my penalty box. Then an autoslide occurs and Gianni gets an easy free kick that gives him the lead. I can blame the autoslide... but I really should blame myself for not returning the ball to my keeper instead of running upwards.

Injury time, and Gianni makes two mistakes that lead to me equalizing! First he doesn't manage to score (I still don't understand what happened there), then he miscalculated his header in defense.

Half time and I'm feeling confident, my defense was working well and I was winning battles in the midfield.

4:05 to go, what a stupid move on my part, instead of moving left and scoring with a shot I've managed 1,000 times before I ran into Gianni's defender.

With three minutes to go, I get a distant free kick. I'm crap at set pieces, but I know this one very well; all you need to do is push the button for the right amount of time, no joystick needed. I've done it a million times before, but not on Sunday; I released it too early.

Gianni took the lead with 2:29 to go, and although it looked like a very simple goal I admired it a lot. Few people have the instict and understanding of their position on the field to take that kind of shot! I think anyone else would have dribbled.

1:42 to go, amazing "Troglos" defense by Gianni, and a couple of seconds later I attempted a long ball as I knew my player was in the box, and what do you know, it went in. My lobs were not working in that game (I could feel Wayne frowning behind me), but even accidental ones are good for me.

Injury time, Simpson heads the ball on the line and makes a heroic run. I first thought I'd try a diagonal long shot, but I knew it wasn't going to go straight so the alternative plan was to get the ball to Barber and take a good aftertouch shot. Not enough time; the final whistle was heard before the aftertouch was registered, so I'll never know where it was going to end up.

Overall, I think a draw was a fair result! I hope people enjoyed watching that match as much as I enjoyed playing it.
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Postby Freshmaker » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:46 pm

Wow Alkis. Very nice write-up. Sure helps me a lot! Gianni? Your thougths? ;)
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Postby benjamgreen » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:53 pm

hi everyone - sorry to have missed all the action - congratulations to gianni of course :D -

just a quick post as hearing alkis' take on the game has interested me greatly - especially this

I'm crap at set pieces


this seems entirely incongruous with your general approach. you strike me as the ko machine. forget flare - forget style - forget class - these things are only important to console the also-rans - right? you know exactly what you should do in every given situation and care very little for what it looks like. that's not to say i don't think you have class, style or flare - but simply that you do not consider these things to be important.

whilst i admire that, i do not aspire to it. i love ko2 as a football game, and enjoy the game over all others as it can simulate certain aspects of football better than any other. it is of great concern to me that my development as a ko2 player would require me to tread a path that forks completely with the one i would tread for pure enjoyment.

even the way i play the game today - which has taken me into the 'sub elite' category, is an uncomfortable compromise. it has nearly ceased to have anything to do with football. it is now glitch exploitation on a football pitch. if ever me and jon get round to a game, we have to decide beforehand whether it's going to be a game of football (for fun) or a game of glitch explotation (for tournament preparation).

but i mention this because i don't imagine this troubles the supergreek ko machine? - i doubt you could get to your level if it did!

professional fouls are also an issue. i just wouldn't do them - and i know jon feels the same. it is cheating - no question about it. if both players feel that it is acceptable to cheat then of course it's entirely up to them -but i can't help but think that it just moves us yet further from a sporting simulation - which is surely the reason why we all love the game - isn't it?
people also apologise directly after committing professional fouls -as if to say - 'sorry, i know it's cheating but its gotta be done - right? you'd do it to me - right?' no - i wouldn't. i love the game, i don't cheat. i wouldn't do it on the 5-a-side pitch and i wouldn't do it here. sometimes you might go for a 50/50 ball and miss and foul - fine - that's different - it's taking someone out on purpose to eliminate a threat that i consider unacceptable - at least for my own game.

but i've strayed from my original interest - which is why the supergreek ko2 god hasn't mastered set pieces from every conceivable point on the pitch? if i had the will to improve then this would be my starting point as it seems such a powerful yet easily obtainable weapon. if there was one player i would expect to have this absolutely nailed - then it would be you, alkis!
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Postby alkis21 » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:51 am

Very interesting post Ben, it's not often that we get to read your thoughts!

You seem to be making the same mistake about me most people make, you think I have consciously chosen this style of game as an effective way of winning most matches; that's not true. This is just the way I play, out of pure instinct, I didn't choose it any more than I chose the way I walk or the way I speak. One thing you are right about, I do take advantage of anything that's in the game, without the slightest remorse. I use every feature and every bug in the game as I see fit, and I don't complain if my opponents do the same. That *is* my general approach towards computer games, ever since I was a kid I'd look for weaknesses in a game that would allow me to proceed. An exception to that is diving for penalties, I don't do them as I know they are seriously frowned upon in the KOA.

It's amusing that you also think of professional fouls as cheating, I have to admit that in my real football games I never hesitated to do them either (I was either a defender -right back- or a defensive midfielder). They got me into fights several times. :lol:

As for free kicks, what can I say? Everyone has at least one weakness in Kick Off, and that's mine. I tried to practice them with Camber's recent versions, taking 20 free kicks from the exact same spot, and I still didn't manage to understand them.

If I may give you a piece of advice Ben, don't ever change your way of playing to something that's theoretically more effective if it goes against your beliefs of what you enjoy. In my experience, the more people enjoy their game, the better they play.
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Postby alkis21 » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:02 am

As an afterthought: There's an unreal number of people who keep thinking that players like Gianluca, Gianni, Spyros etc. are only that good because they only like to win, whereas others only play for fun and would be equally good if they just bothered to practice and score repetitive goals. There's only one problem with this theory: it's a pile of stinking horse shit.

I know that's not what Ben says, but I just wanted to say that before people took the cue.
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Postby gdh82 » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:05 pm

Fascinating review of your game, Alkis. 8) I'll have to re-watch the video to help me appreciate your insightful comments. I love the fact that KO2 has this depth to it, that there are almost layers of understanding. Just when I think I'm beginning to think that I know something about KO2, I realise I've only peeled the first layer!!!

Good to hear from you, Ben :) - very interesting post too. Know exactly what you mean about the distinction between love of football vs glitch exploitation.

And I'm completely agree about deliberate fouls - its unsporting, anti-competitive (i.e win at all costs), and seems generally unhealthy. Its probably another can of worms for the KOA but it might be an area we look into at some point - a way of identifying and punishing the most clear cut of deliberate fouls ?
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Postby Torchiador » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:17 pm

Freshmaker wrote:Wow Alkis. Very nice write-up. Sure helps me a lot! Gianni? Your thougths? ;)

What a nice write-up! great work Alkis!
I've only to review in detail!

Alkis wrote:I had an excellent one by taking the lead after only 12 seconds from kick off. Unlike Gianni, I don't think the keeper was to blame for that goal; Fisher can't ever defend a header from that close.

In truth the header come just after the bad clearance of the goalkeeper, if the keeper stopped (sorry, I've got problems with the english conditional form :oops: ) no header and no goal, here's why I blame the goalkeeper! :D Anyway I must to blame myself for the great mistake I made before your digaonal cross: I made a present to you, giving you the ball in a crucial point and in a crucial moment! :)

Alkis21 wrote:In such a tough game, you need to make the best out of your chances in front of the goal, and I failed to do that on two occasions: 3.19 to go in the first half, and (especially) 2.02.

Indeed. in the chance you had at 3.19 I think you missed a clear goal; on the contrary, at 2.02 I think I've made a great save on your shot, you concluded a pretty good dribble and diagonal shot but I made a well-timed header! :D
It was a really tense game, and as you said, the draw was a fair result indeed! and you right in all your comment about the match, it is possible to see many thing about kickoff, we had also a great unintended slide at 2.14, Imagine if i was able to stop the ball and I have had the possibility to try to dribble you! :wink:
Looking the game more accurately (I saw the game just one time, hoping to re-watch the game the second time with the right audio... :P ) I've seen that we won about 50% of the midfield headers and we had a draw. I remember In Milan last year that you won about 80% of the headers but I won about 80% of the matchs so I think next time I have to loose some more header in midfield against you! :)

Speaking about the matter raised from Ben, I can say that I'm not an dirty defender, I don't like intentional/professional fouls and I don use that kind of dirty tecnique to stop the opponent and I don't like it when the opponent uses professional fouls to stop me, mainly because of the action in itself: the player who uses professional fouls to stop the opponens may have the possibility to remain unpunished because often the refree doens't whistle the foul and it is a shame. Of course this one simulates the real situation of real soccer but it is my opinion that every foul must to be punished with the appropriate and right punishment. for me it is a matter of justice.
I spoke about it just this night in another thread, right here: http://www.ko-gathering.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=12852&start=221

EDIT: and BTW, sometimes happens that a penalty kick is not whistled
from the refree, the dirty defender gain the ball and he scores in the same action. In italian we say:" oltre il danno, la beffa" something that sounds like:"to have insult added to injury".
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