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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:46 am
by jesper
I just startet playing angain but tactics-wise I am a newbie. I have always
used 4-3-3 but never really experimented a lot.

Which ones are used by the top players and why?
What are the weankesses and strenghts of the different tactics?

Any comments appreciated!


Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:53 am
by jbounias
read my post for ko2002 8) . its your final decision

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:14 pm
by Tripod
Robert Swift could surely help you out - though according to him, 433 and 442 are totally useless... :) Nonetheless, Luigi, finalist in Milan, plays 433, and so does Martin Beard, for example, successfully. The Spanish champ Rodolfo is the only guy I know who plays 442, though I do belive the great Bill21 was(/is?) also a 442 man.

Anyway, I've played 424, the default tactic, my whole life and it is probably too late to change that. Once in a while I play 532 vs the cpu, but never with much success. Still, again according to Robert, who admittedly knows the game inside out, 532 is both a beginner's and expert's choice. Beginners will feel less vulnerable at the back than with a 424, where it is often Cox vs two or even three players and any mistake is costly. However, unless you wholly want to rely on lobbing, you'll have to learn the dos and donts of 532 to be able to get a decent attack going - you'll have to slow down the game in midfield for your other players to move towards the opponent's goal.

Both 442 and 433 have one major weakness - defending. If the opponent controls the ball in the right places without you stopping him, he can play long lobs to his striker without you having a chance to intercept the ball and you'll basically have to hope for a mistake by him, otherwise he'll score. On the plus side you have some great attacking chances - you'll need to talk to Rodolfo about 442, which is only slightly superior in attack to 424 and most people will tell you that is simply not enough to warrant playing it.

433 of course needs attacks initiated by the wingers - If you can confidently score by diagonal lobs into the box which you then shoot or head in with your striker, then it is an interesting tactic, but you will probably concede a lot of goals, too, so you have to outscore your opponent.

Now, KO2 is a great game and that means none of the formations are perfect. In 424, Cox all by himself can defend well, but good players can draw him out, too, and pass the ball on to a striker who'll have a clean shot - not quite as easy to do as with 433 or 442. And even 532 does not guarantee that no striker will even be all by himself in the box if the opponent plays just the right passes.

Of the top players, Martin J plays 424, so do Spyros and Klaus, as well as Panayotis and Mark P. Most of the other players favor 532 - like the champ Gianluca (but one of his strengths is his flexibility, in the final in Milan he played 424 against Luigi's 433 and it certainly looked like a good choice). Or Alkis, now what a deadly player: 532 doesn't reap a lot of goals? Look at his stats! On the other hand, check the goals against of the top 424 players - they can totally dominate an opponent and thus hardly condede any. Nikos plays 532, so does Rikki, Robert of course, Camber, James Beard...

So, definitely, it is your decision. I personally am totally happy playing 424, I know where my players are, what my options are (usually) and very much like that I often have the choice of trying one wing or the other, or even go through the middle. If you want to be good, learn your tactic inside out. If you want to be real good, learn all of them inside out and be prepared to switch between them depending on the opponent! :)

Which reminds me of another point, which I only learned from Robert in Milan - if you get a free kick say just inside your half, a top player might switch to another formation because it'll produce an unmarked player up the pitch! This looks (as I said, I'm no expert) very interesting especially with a 532, which normally is quite defensive. In other formatiosn you might then again think about switching to 532 once in a while when facing such a problem. I've told myself for ages (but keep forgetting when playing) I should switch when I have a corner playing down the pitch - cause I haven't scored from one in ages and it can produce a great counter attack for the opponent - in Jerez when I played Rodolfo's mate David (532), he scored on such counter attacks several times and I thought it was totally stupid, but a simple switch might help out, only it's not part of my gaming routine - so another "to do" on my long list of things I need to work on...

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:23 pm
by jesper
Thanks a lot. That was very usefull reading for me. So I should probadly practice
my 5-3-2 for a start and only go for 4-3-3 if I feel lucky!

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:29 pm
by durban
I use 2ManDeep which is apparently the greatest tactic ever :)

From the basic tactics its a sort of Attacking or Defending option.

There are many bonuses to 442 and 433 in attacking, however they have glaring holes left open in defence. People who use 433 in particular are generally expert players who attack very well, and thus will try and score more than you.

532 on the other hand is defensively based. You should not expect to score as many (although many people prove this not to be the case) but it gives you a solid back 2 who will cover most long balls etc.

424 is sort of a mix between the two. Many attacking options and can defend well if you can read the game.

So therefore its a decision. 442 I would say is pretty rubbish in general.

433 is only to be used if you are confident you can outscore your opponent.

424 is great if you like attacking and using the wings. It needs great concentration when defending tho as quite a few times your defenders will be out of position (even if only a yard or so)

532 is a good solid foundation to build on when you are a new tournament player. It helps you defend but still has options (although you have to work harder to create attacking opportunities)

I personally enjoy 532 against the better players as I find it helps me keep their goalscoring feats down to a few goals, however against players my level and below I prefer 424 as I enjoy the game a lot more with wingers and passing it around.

No reason why you can't learn two and switch as required.


Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:32 pm
by Tripod
No! (edit: Concerning Jesper's last post) My scoring chances would greatly improve if you use 433! :) Seriously, and I hope other comments will back this up, 532 is not the answer to everything - Mark Williams I believe improved a lot after a switch to this defensive formation, but personally I'd rather improve my finishing and not concern myself even more with defending, I want to be "in the game". And with my skill level I think I'd just be reacting if I used 532. A more offensive formation makes it easier to play out your own attacks, which is simply more fun. And against less-than-elite-players you should be fine - and against the top guys you won't stand a chance whatever you use! :) (Unless you attend a lot of tournaments, get in a lot of practice and so on of course)

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:10 pm
by durban
Firstly who is Mark Williams

Secondly what is DDR

and thirdly I agree kind of, you should play the formation that you find most enjoyable and suits your style of play, unless of course there is a reason for altering your style of play (ie me letting in too many goals)


Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:50 pm
by Rodolfo
This is Rodolfo, the 442 weirdo.

When you are the only one using this tactic, this will also give you some bonus, as many other players do not expect how will you play. It is very very funny, you always have some good scoring chance, and about defending... the better players will knock you anyway.

It is true that the defense line is a joke. But it is also true that this con has its pro: you will have to learn to be a good scorer. You will have to try to keep the ball possesion as much as you can, you will have to stop the enemy attack in the midfield or you are dead. And the results will very often be 6-7 or 5-4. Wich is something I do like.

Another thing: against CPU is the best tactic you can use in my opinion. That will mean that you will not learn how to defend, and in the real world that is quite negative. But on the other hand, you may learn how to score.

The most shocking thing I have experienced in the 3 world cups I played is how bad are most of the people when they are in front of the goalkeeper. And after that, many of them beat me, because they defend very well, and I do not (can not) defend at all. But I always regarded this as somehow antinatural... people who learned to defend before learning to score... poor boring chaps.


Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:19 pm
by jbounias
All tactiks could be good , if ko was slower and allowed in line or zone play, but as this game is nothing but a frantic up and down and if you can dribble there is no defence at all, its better to use a tactic that has the players spread round the field as best it is possible.So for this reason and only you should try 433 , its an all around tactic and best suited to the games speed. Ofcourse there are many other characteristics but they are in deep connection to your style.
My modest opinion is that there are thoulsands of ways to score goals but few only one way to win in a truly advanced competition, its simple you must be expert all round

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:38 pm
by Robert
Excellent post by Rodolfo! Learn to score before you defend :lol:

I agree, but not completely....

Yes, if you cannot score an easy chance 1v1 with the keeper, then no tactic is going to help you.

After that, it's not about defence or attack, it's about dominating the game.

Look at the last few world cups and UK champs - the 'best defender' has most often gone to 424 players: Rikki, Klaus, Martin Jeffrey. These players defend their goal by attacking yours. You can't get near them because you are too busy clearing their shots off your goal line.

Dominating the game means getting to every ball first, winning every header, completing every pass, scoring every chance and pressuring your opponent into fucking up.

How much to do tactics affect this? About 30%. The rest is practice, concentration, experience, confidence.

Practice - comes from playing the game
Concentration - comes from working hard and not being tired
Experience - comes from learning those 'features' of the game you can exploit
Confidence - comes from feeling you're going to win even if the score might not say this!

The golden rule about tactics is that the best one to use is the one you know best. This way you gain an understanding of where players are. When you play long passes, you are kicking the ball off the screen. Knowledge of your tactic means you are not passing to the opposition and getting your ass kicked as a result.

5-3-2 might have a deep defence but what it lacks is players in space to clear the ball to. It will prevent you being hit on the break (danger of 424) but unless you are excellent at heading you'll find yourself trying to clear and the ball barely makes it over the halfway line before your opponent heads it down and blasts it back into your box. 4-3-3 and 4-2-4 at least have someone to clear to.

HOWEVER - 5-3-2 is the tactic I would recommend to anyone starting professional KO2. This is because there is nothing so damaging to confidence as letting in about 8 goals against someone. With 5-3-2 you can get this down to 4. May not sound exciting but you only need to learn to score 4 goals per game rather than 8 (like Rodolfo :lol: :lol: ).

I feel bad every time I see a newer player starting a game on 424 against someone experienced. Because I know they might make 5 or 6 chances and convert about 1. On 532 they might make 3 or 4 chances and convert 1. You see, the value of 424 only comes when you can score 5 or 6 GOALS per game rather than 3 or 4. There's no point creating extra chances you can't score.

The last thing is that lobbing is the most basic goal of KO2. It's a basic skill. People that don't/can't lob are rare and freakish. Basically Rikki and Gianluca. If you can do everything else as well as them then don't lob. Otherwise you need to lob. You aren't playing the game if you don't have lobbing at least on your mind when you attack. And the best thing about lobbing? It works just as well on 1.4 and Oracle.

So, 532 and lobbing is one of the best ways to start. Look at players like Camber and J Beard....they never even got beyond this stage and sometimes they manage to beat good people.

Think of it like in the film Leon/The Professional. Leon (Jean Reno) is training a 12 year old girl (Natalie Portman) to be an assassin. First he teaches her how to use the sniper rifle. He says "You start with this. The closer you get to being a pro, the closer you get to the target. The knife you will learn last of all." Lobs are your sniper rifle....Rodolfo might be pretty decent up close with his knife, but all the more reason for new players to put on body armour and shoot his head from 1000m away :)

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:40 pm
by Abyss
John, I'll call you and try to get together, say in Wednesday, so i can prove your 4-3-3 theories on KO2 to be totally wrong :)

Of course, you are probably right in KO2002, but this is a different game altogether.

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:44 pm
by Abyss
Robert Swift wrote:People that don't/can't lob are rare and freakish.


BTW, in my last game vs Alkis I scored a lob! :) :) :)

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:58 pm
by Robert
You are still rare and freakish I'm afraid.