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Kick Off routines: Should they be banned?

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:08 pm
by labrujitaraymarjef
I was playing Trevor recently for money and I seemed to be scoring a lot of very important goals from my kick off routine. I could see him getting very upset about this. Does anyone think that kick off routines should be banned? I think there may be a case for it becasue there are certain routines that I have seen that seem to be unstoppable and it becomes a very strange game indeed when playing a person to score 4 goals in a row from kick off routines that are virtually unstoppable.

Particularly with team A I think some routines are unstoppable and I have score 4 or 5 in a match straight from the kick off. Is this wrong? Or do the best players include good routines in their game and use them as another weapon.

By the way who has the best kick off routine? I think mine is very good when I am doing it right but spyros is also very good.

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:28 pm
by manicx
Any goal that comes right after the kick off is a bad goal. Your routine Martin takes full advantage of the fact that all four systems that we use, put the players in such positions that there is a gap between midfielders and defenders that is very annoying especially after the kick off where the formation is perfectly positioned in the pitch.

Spyros is once again takes advantage of this very same thing. Both goals are also achieved because of poor player switching. It's not coincidence that these types are achieved right after the Kick Off. I remember playing with Spyros a best of 10 where he scored 60-70% of the goals like that.

Personally, I don't think that this is Kick Off 2. You can be a perfect defender, and score 5 goals, yet the other player can score 5 goals right after the Kick Offs and another one because you are a human and you make mistakes. If the other is a good player, then he can score real goals. Me and my old Kick Off pals demostrated unbelievable maturity back in 91, when we decided to stopped such goals. And yes, Kick Off 2 was such a joy to play.

To conclude, and after playing in the Italian tournament, I will refuse to shake hands with any people who will use goal routines after the kick off in order to win. My decision and this time I am going to do it...

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:46 pm
by JamesHBeard
Trouble with this theory is "When" is a kick off routine wrong ?

For instance its a lot easier to dribble all the way down the pitch from the kick off and score without anyone tackling you. Is this wrong ?

2nd if you pass the ball back a few times and then play a ball forward so say 4 different players have touched the ball and then you score a goal is this not acceptable ?

Are you all basically saying that at the kick off you have to give the opposition the ball as its not fair to score a goal from the kick off before the opponent has at least touched the ball ?

Another issue to consider is that of the player that purposely plays the ball back to the goalkeeper as to position the players in the goal kick position.. again another well defined method of scoring a routine goal... is this as bad ?

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 1:01 pm
by labrujitaraymarjef
I would say a kick off routine can definately include passes. It is anything that is done routinely ( ie exactly the same) from the kick off that results in the same goal or the same chance for a goal.

James I reckon that to ban kick off routines we could just make it mandatory to pass back to the goalie every time. I don't know if it's as easy top score the same goal from this position.

I'm not saying they should be banned but I was just curious as to people's views on the subject. Whether it is practical to ban them or if a decent argument can be maintained to keep them.

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 1:34 pm
by Abyss
I use two - three kick off routines that can be quite effective at times, but I can see the point of banning them - sometimes it makes the game unfair because it exploits its bugs. But so are many things - Kick Off does have its bugs, doesn't it? ;-)

To be honest, I believe that all these routines can be stopped, IF you know what to expect. In my second game against Martin J. in Helland, I think I found the way to stop his routine. Then again, it may just be that he didn't execute it very well.

I think that in general we should not try to put artificial blocks to our game (banning certain goals and attacking methods). What would the next step be, banning goals from corner kicks? In almost every football game I've played, there are some techniques to score goals from setup positions. It's part of the game.

However, don't get me wrong. I can understand the frustration of conceeding a seemingly unavoidable goal right after the kick off. Maybe a rule that demands to return the ball to the goalie can help things.

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 2:24 pm
by Pee
I think sometimes in football, the better a team gets, the less exiting the football is to watch. The best teams experience, skill and tactical nouse cancel each other out. This is why this years FA Cup Final was a decent game when in recent history there have been some shit finals (Man U vs Liverpool for instance (the Cantona one)). I reckon tonights champs league final may prove this also (although I hope not)

What I am saying is that the best KO2 player use their skills and experience to exploit the games bugs and weaknesses but in the end two players will come together and cancel each other out in the most boring KO game ever, be it 0-0 or 10-10. Two average players going hell for leather, attacking and making defensive mistakes will always make for a better game of KO (IMO). I guess this is the price elite players have to pay for their eliteness. I don't think you can ever ban stuff like this at the top level, you've just got to get on with it.

Sidenote:This is why FW is a superior game. Less opportunities for exploiting the games weaknesses.


Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 2:53 pm
by alkis21
manicx wrote:To conclude, and after playing in the Italian tournament, I will refuse to shake hands with any people who will use goal routines after the kick off in order to win. My decision and this time I am going to do it...

Unbelievable. Nikos' holly crusade of banning every single goal in the world but his continues.
I consider this the GAYEST comment of the century and just another sly way of intimidating the opponents into not scoring some specific goals against you. Once again, just like Vasilis' kick off lobs and my mid-distance shots, you're trying to ban goals instead of trying to defend against them.
GROW UP! There are 7-9 Greek players and you are the only one who keeps saying this things! You'd better take that comment back ASAP!
I can't believe I'm going to reveal this to everyone but here it goes: There *is* a way of stopping Martin's and Panayotis' kick off routine and I manage it against Panayotis almost every time. Here it is:

-Switch to 4-2-4
-Move your joystick UP instead of down.. most people move it down and create the empty space
-You now have a fraction of a second of a chance to stop the long pass either with a header or by trapping the ball (it depends on the course of the ball) right before the attacker gets a chance to shoot.

There you have it then. It's not easy, but once you got it going you will manage to stop it almost every time.
Spyros' routine is a bit more tricky, but 4-2-4 is the formation of choice again. Sometimes I stop it every time, sometimes he scores everytime. I will eventually find out a defending routine that works against it.

You wanna know what should be banned in my opinion? Playing for money. :(

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 3:08 pm
by Abyss
Very sensible post be Pee there (I don't know about the FW part though ;-) )

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 4:05 pm
by JamesHBeard

The more I read your posts the more admiration I have for you and your KO2 skills. I believe that you truly are the greatest KO2 player of all time.... maximum respect mate. 8)

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 4:14 pm
by TheFoxSoft
I think if there is someone growed up here is Nikos and Ely.The first because I have a great admiration for him and everytime he speaks he says smart words.About the 2nd I have an admiration for him to his impressive skill to give smiles in our mouth.
I think it's not so smart to have fun with kick-off routine.Sorry Alkis,James and who doesn't think like me.This is my opinion and you know how I'm strict about these things.
But i would like to know Ely's filosofy :D

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 4:21 pm
by JamesHBeard
Fox I am not sure I understand your comment.

I am not one who likes to use kick off routines, I like to play KO2 as a real footie match as thats when its really exciting.

The point is that its not possible for any rule to be imposed on a tournament that outlaws certain goals.. its a matter of ethics and thats down to the individual.

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 4:25 pm
by TheFoxSoft
Sorry for the misunderstanding it's my fault, not your.
i agree at all what you write!really great post.
The problem is that it's enough that one apply KO routines and everyone will emulate him.

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 4:30 pm
by TheFoxSoft
But like Alkis, said sometimes it's enough to have a good defence.Look at the final Alkis-Rikki.We cannot say that they applied everytime routines goals.Especially Alkis made an excited game.But I was boring for him to conceed the last 2 goals by 2 consecutive BLC.
Nothing is unstoppable but he lost due a routine.....and I'm really sorry for him because he deserved to win (if we analize the final)!
Maybe Rikki was the best but he win thanks 2 consecutive BLC.We can like or not but this is the truth.