Kick Off routines: Should they be banned?

Talk about EVERYTHING related to Kick Off 1 + 2.

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labrujitaraymarjef
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Postby labrujitaraymarjef » Wed May 28, 2003 4:44 pm

The routine I have done is very hard to stop when team A performs it correctly. It's not so good as team B becasue barber doesnt shrug off opposition. I havent seen anybody stop it so far but I am open to the possibility that it might be preventable and I will experiement with your suggestion Alkis if I can.

I don't think I was doing it very well in Greece, in fact I wasn't doing it very well the other week in wolverhampton either. I only seem to be able to perform it consistently in friendlies. It's not something I find very easy to get exactly right sometimes and for this reason I don't think it has been of significant help in tournaments so far. ( maybe a bit eh steve c :) )

I treat the kick off routine as a good skill and I am very pleased with myself when I pull one off because I don't find it easy at all. But I havent really suffered from it as much as others and I have to say that I got a bit of exposure to it in Greece.

Personally I think the time will come when more people get as pissed off about this routine as Nikos and Trevor are getting, but if alkis is right then these people ought to hang their heads in shame :lol: for whinging until alkis came out with a solution instead of developing one themselves.
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Postby labrujitaraymarjef » Wed May 28, 2003 4:53 pm

Yeah after Fox's last post I am starting to see the slippery slope argument now. There is no way you can justify banning the BLC in my opinion.

Come on! I bet every goal you scored in your last italian victory took advantage of some flaw in the game Foxsoft. There is a repetitive element in 99 per cent of goals and you all know it.

Manipulating the keeper for the easy open goal, scoring in the corner at the keeper's right hand side, performing a cross which causes the keeper to stand rooted to his line (becasue he expects a lob) and taking advantage of this by perfmorming a header to the opposite side... the list goes on. Which one was your favourite mate?
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Postby TheFoxSoft » Wed May 28, 2003 5:08 pm

I never say that goals must be banned and I never say that BLC must be banned.Please read better what I wrote.
No need to wind up the discussion.If you read my previous topic I agreed to what Jim said but I add that I'm sorry that Alkis was defeated by 2 consecutive BLC.That's all.
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Last edited by TheFoxSoft on Wed May 28, 2003 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ely » Wed May 28, 2003 5:14 pm

Well I think if you start trying to ban people from scoring certain goals then you're just going to start more arguments. I think however if someone is winning easily and they carry on doing them, then I think that's a little unfair. As Alkis says there must be ways of stopping these goals with a bit of clever defending but as I've not seen Martin's goal it's tricky to think anything else.
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Postby TheFoxSoft » Wed May 28, 2003 5:17 pm

I agree with Ely! :P
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Postby JamesHBeard » Wed May 28, 2003 5:59 pm

TheFoxSoft wrote:Maybe Rikki was the best but he win thanks 2 consecutive BLC.We can like or not but this is the truth.


I agree Fox mate, Rikki relied on his routine goal to win the world cup. After closely watching the final again I can see that Alkis created some great goals. Look at the one where he dribbled all the way into the box.. pure class.

I am not saying the BLC does not require lots of skill cause it definately does otherwise everyone would be doing it but when it keeps occuring in the same game it makes it more of a "game" than a football match :)

I also want to add that Rikki did seriously distract Alkis in the final which also cost him at least one goal.
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Postby TheFoxSoft » Wed May 28, 2003 6:07 pm

about labrujitaraymarjef question, I like to score with low shots.If you watch the italian final I don't finalize like others.I prefer to shoot instead to dribble or make long balls to the attacker to correct ball trajectory.It's my copyright :D
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Postby labrujitaraymarjef » Wed May 28, 2003 6:35 pm

Nice one Gianluca. I will have a look at your videos. Right now I have to go and watch the football. :)
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Postby Wonka » Thu May 29, 2003 7:50 am

And I would like to add that only 3 of the 10 goals over the 2 legged final were BLC's and the other 7 were great goals. These other 7 were just as crucial as the last 2 BLC's. I could say that all Alkis did was pump it up to Barber but I'm not and I thought I was more distracted by the Greek crowd, not to mention my own country supporting Alkis. :cry:
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Postby manicx » Thu May 29, 2003 8:32 am

alkis21 wrote:Unbelievable. Nikos' holly crusade of banning every single goal in the world but his continues.
I consider this the GAYEST comment of the century and just another sly way of intimidating the opponents into not scoring some specific goals against you. Once again, just like Vasilis' kick off lobs and my mid-distance shots, you're trying to ban goals instead of trying to defend against them.


You can't defend goals like that performed by experienced players. Most people do not just move forward but they dribble as well. Vasilis lob after Kick Off takes advantage of the space left in the circle. As in real football opponents are not allowed in the circle which gives space to the opponent not only to perform the lob but also to dribble in a way that you can not defend without fouling. Fouling with a ref like Zappa and Screech is a nightmare.

GROW UP! There are 7-9 Greek players and you are the only one who keeps saying this things! You'd better take that comment back ASAP!
I can't believe I'm going to reveal this to everyone but here it goes: There *is* a way of stopping Martin's and Panayotis' kick off routine and I manage it against Panayotis almost every time. Here it is:


I grew up in 91 when I agreed with my pals not to score gay goals. It seems to me that people just want to win. In Italy, I stopped doing my Nikos goal (although this goal is pure ability) simply because I respected my opponents. I am not sure how many people would actually do that without causing trouble. I am not sure how many people would do that when playing under strange conditions (random pitch, wind, tactics). I am not sure how many people would do that without caring what the result will be. Grow up? I think that other people should do that because I 've done this since 91.

-Switch to 4-2-4
-Move your joystick UP instead of down.. most people move it down and create the empty space
-You now have a fraction of a second of a chance to stop the long pass either with a header or by trapping the ball (it depends on the course of the ball) right before the attacker gets a chance to shoot.


I 've seen Panayotis scoring goals like that against you. For me, as Martin said, it depends on how well it is performed and not by the defence you get. In one of the friendlies I had with Martin in Athens, he did 3 of them and scored all 3. I noticed that Martin was making a small dribble by moving left or right and then lob. I managed to stop some of them but the chances are 50-50. Tackle on the left or tackle on the right. In that friendly the odds were against me. I was always tackling on the wrong side. I think I won 5-4 and that was 3 goals from this routine. Panayotis is doing this all the time as well, but he doesn't make this small dribble. As I said though it always depends. It depends on two things:

a) How strong is the lob(pass) behind the centre of the pitch to the player who will shot the final lob
b)How far the computer moved that player that will do the final lob.

Martin has practised a lot with the above two and he always finds that gap that no tactic (at least the 4 basic ones) can stop. BTW, one of my pals used to do this on the ST. When we moved to 1.6e on the Amiga, I managed to stop this with an O/H kick.

Spyros' routine is a bit more tricky, but 4-2-4 is the formation of choice again. Sometimes I stop it every time, sometimes he scores everytime. I will eventually find out a defending routine that works against it.


After playing with Spyros that best of ten, I realised that the best formation to defend against was 4-2-4. BUT, if the ball goes in between no4 and no5, the poor palyers' switching gives you no player to control and Spyros unique ball control gives him a certain goal. With 5-3-2, the switching is even worse as no4, no5 and no6 get bananas! Spyros, cleverly enough performs the pass slightly to the right. As I said, if the pass is good, then no defence can be found.

These goals can be stopped only using the following:

-PM tactics
-Wind and random pitch
-Badly performed pass
-luck
-and a little bit of ability.

To conclude, I have to say, that a few days back, people said that I am one of the best defenders. Well, it seems that now, I am not a good defender because I can't stop routine lobs...
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Postby SimonB » Thu May 29, 2003 8:47 am

Most of KO2 is routine to a degree.

In real football, players wander all over the pitch trying to mark other players, rushing into space, or closing it down. Hence a good pass or a well worked goal is due to the skill and awareness of the player (+ the error of the opposing team).

In KO2 a players position is determined by the relative position of the ball on the pitch. So players positions are (most of the time) known for each of the tactics - and most good players are aware of this and know accordingly how to break down or get around those tactics. This means that to a degree most of the KO2 play is a routine.

Of course players who want inject more fun into the game try to play with a little more fluidity - dribble with the ball a bit more - trap and pass etc. but against tough opposition it's easier to rely on your routines to get you through.
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Postby SimonB » Thu May 29, 2003 8:50 am

... and as an aside - that's is why adding wind to the game is a great idea, because it adds a random element to the game physics and makes these routines more difficult to play with therefore encouraging more fluid skillful KO2!
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Postby TheFoxSoft » Thu May 29, 2003 9:31 am

Simon you are a god!!!!!! 8)

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