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Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2002 7:27 am
How did you evolve with KO2 during the last 12 years? Here's my story...
1990: Started playing Kick Off 2 on my ST. I was using a Quick Shot Joystick back then!!!
91-92: I was playing Kick Off 2 24:7 with my pals... Played all versions of KO2 and thought the original was the best.
92: My ST broke down and moved on the Amiga. Started playing KO2 1.6e <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> ... Bought the best joystick ever, Pac-Man 2!!!
92-93: I evolved into a great player. Used to play KO2 with a lot of people. Became champion in Northern Greece...
93-99: Went for studies in the UK. Unfortunatelly my Miggy stayed home. I played KO2 rarely <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif"> . My only game with a human opponent was in 1996 where I lost 6-0. I realised I was totally crap.
99-01: National Service time... Had a few games with the computer. Help me to clean rust from my hands!!!
01-June 02: Bought a PC and totally abandoned my Miggies. Never played KO2 for a year.
June 02-Present: Alkis phoned and said, "do you want to come for a KO2 tournament"? I kindly accepted even though I was totally crap. I started playing more and more and I think that I am 50%-60% of the level I was in 93 <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> .
Present-Future: Will be playing KO2 as long as there are miggies and descent joysticks. I will have friends, pictures, videos to remember the good old days. <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2002 8:12 am
1990, started playing at 50% speed against Ron.
2002 still playing at 50% speed against Ron.
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2002 8:24 am
Got Kick Off soon as it came out! played it to death .. then extra time for a bit.. didn`t play that much really
KO2 then arrived: like someone else said, played it 24-7 with two other mates. we all had joyboards by this time ( all home made )
Entered the KO2 contest in London, wnet out first round to some punk who did the `run down the centre, chip and score method` arsehole!
Got all the data disks, but didn`t really play them that much.. finally settled on the WC version of KO2.. played that the most
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2002 9:11 am
In 1989, I used to live in Larisa. Back then, not many people had computers in that city, and even less had Amigas. I got my hands on Kick Off - Extra time and got immediately hooked up to it. A few months later, I ordered Player Manager and fell in love with it, I used to play 2-3 seasons every day as a team!
Summer of 1990: Moved to Athens. Bought Kick Off 2 right away. I then joined a Kick Off 1 tournament even though I had never played it before in my life. I got disqualified in the first round. <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif"> More and more people were buying Amigas so I had plenty of friends to play with. I became better and better, at first competition was serious but soon I couldn't find anyone who could compete with me. It became worse when we got the expanded version, nobody could beat me on the air as I was an overhead kick master. Soon my friends threatened to spread a rumour in our school that I was an underage boys molester unless I stopped playing it.. so we stuck to KO2. <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> I entered my first all-Athens competition in 1991, and I won it. Same thing in 1992. I bought all the later versions (FW and the data disks) but I didn't like them that much.
1993: I moved to Patras to study at the University. People were starting to sell their Amigas for PCs, and finding opponents was getting harder. I sold my A500 too, but I bought an A1200.
1994-2000: Practically no games against other humans at all. I played against the Amiga now and then.
March 2001: I got an e-mail from a Dutch guy named Gunther, telling me about the KOA. He talked to me about Open Kickoff, which was kind of interesting but it sounded like vapourware to me (too bad I turned out to be right). Next time we talked he said Steve Screech was at the forum and he was contemplating the idea of a new Kick Off game! So I joined the KOA.. A couple of weeks later, I bribed my way into becoming a beta tester by sending a CMS joystick to Steve. <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> Then Steve decided to host a world cup.. you all know what happened next.
Although I did my best to be at top form in Dartford, I still think I will never play as well as I did back in the early 90s.
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2002 12:53 pm
As I was brought up playing rugby, I was always taught that football was a girls game and only had a passing interest in it whilst growing up. Then came Italia '90, down the pub with the boys, it soon became clear to me what I'd been missing out on. So began my obsession with the beautiful game and I vowed to make up for lost time. Soon after this I was introduced to the original KO by a mate, thought it was alright but quite limited with pretty much only 8 directions to work with, it did teach me that practice was the only way to get any modicum of control over the ball, so this I did. Very soon afterwards however, he got KO2 and the game became so much more rich and playable with the advent of aftertouch. Sooner afterwards still, The Final Whistle was released and it was all we ever played, with the exception of PM. At the time, we were both at different universities and I only ever got to play when I went to visit on a fairly regular occasion (weekends of getting blitzed and playing FW/PM with the odd IK+ match and a few games of RVF Honda....ah memories). When we left uni I got my own miggy and started playing regularly (every day for hours). Soon enough I was up to the same level as him and our matches became more about who wanted it more, as opposed to me getting leathered and getting very angry indeed at this. And so we turned those hazy days of our uni weekends into a daily activity, we were pretty evenly matched but I probably nosed ahead after a while. Haven't played him for years now as he lost the bug but I carried on playing every day, thinking that it was just me, then I found you other freaks <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> .
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:17 pm
Another mate (Paulie) who I used to play SWOS with has recently borrowed my old A500 from me to start his KO2/FW career. How I envy him and all the pleasure he has to come from learning the game and evolving his style. It would be cool if he could give us a beginners perspective on the game.
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:53 pm
At the moment I’m just in practise mode. Dribbling is not to bad but I’m still having trouble with my timing. The pain comes from playing to much SWOS. Every time I pick up my joystick and play KO2 I keep reverting back to SWOS stile and end up twating the ball up field instead of a delicate tap. Still every time I play it I get a little better.
Use to play KO2/FW against Dave Toast but learnt nothing. It’s hard to learn when you can’t touch the ball. I got to a professional level at picking the ball out of the back of the net though. Thanks Mark <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif"> Yea Bastard
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:57 pm
Here's mine :
A story tinged with sadness this one I'm afraid.
Fisrt experienced KO1 at a mate's house. Him and another lad used to be C64 boys and we used to have mini Microprose Soccer tournaments. Then one lad got an Amiga and not long after, KO1. This was a revalation to all of us and every school lunch break was spent over a couple of games of KO1 fun. Becasue of this and just the general quality of the games I got an Amiga (Batman/New Zealand Story box set) for Christmas. Don't ever recall owning and original of KO1 but I do remember playing Extra Time quite a lot. <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif"> Then came Player Manager which just took over my weekends and evenings playing either on my jack or two players (one half each which was muchus funus).
In the meantime another mate, not from school, was getting into ST's and the obvious Amiga v ST battles ensued.
When KO2 came out was when we really started getting into 2 player action and I guess at it's peak there was maybe 8 of us who were competant and a few more who struggled a bit with the controls but suffered their beating nonetheless. Playing KO2 expanded version or FW mainly. Gotta love the o/heads and the refs <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
Towards the end of the Amiga hey day KO2 was really the only game we played and mainly the most competition was between me and my mate Stu, the ST guy. He was a genius at KO2, could never get the bastard ball off him and used to seriously like to wind me up that he could beat me on my Amiga comfortably whilst never conceding it was the better machine for the job. He was very very competitive and never gave me an inch the twat. By then it was definitely a Saturday night after the pub job playing pissed or stoned trying to break through the beer/smoke induced haze to focus on the game. This was when natural talent and being in the "zone" really came to the fore.
When SWOS came out, most of the people on the edge who couldn't handle KO2 got more and more into SWOS with it's easy to get to grips with control system. The lads from school sort of drifted away and there was only me and Stu who really still played KO2.
Unfortunatley Stu was killed just short of his eighteenth birthday when a lorry driver ploughed into him and another couple on the hard shoulder. Asleep at the wheel? Who knows. Driving on the hard shoulder at full tilt? For sure. Whatever, a fucking tragedy.
So there you have it, the motherf*#%er left me we no KO2 mates <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif">
As with Davetaost, just carried on playing on my jack for a couple of years thinking I was the only saddo out there seen as all my previous KO2 buddies had moved on to much more "mature" things (and then came along the more accpetable to adults, playstation & FIFA <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif"> ) The Amiga then went into the loft at my Mum's because FW was keeping me away from my studies <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif"> and there it stayed until last year when for some reason I got the urge to do a search for Kick Off on the net and found you beauties.
I then bought an Amiga on e-bay thinking my joystick ports were buggered. The fooker was taking ages to come so I nicked my Amiga back from my Mum's and low and behold it worked. (Got to wrap the joystick cables underneath the Amiga though to jam the stick into the port for it to work) KO/FW days were here again. And there was much rejoicing. Then came KO'02 which is now (since 1.33) taking over the Amiga version in terms of play time. Then played my first 2 player games with DT at the first official FW gathering. And there was much rejoicing.
And now we're at now
Thanks for the memories. May KO/PM/FW/KO'02 rule forever.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pee on 2002-08-05 16:57 ]</font>
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2002 4:31 pm
I had my first Amiga on Christmas 1990. On March 31th I bought KO2 (original). I had already played KO on Spectrum (original). The game scared me a lot, just did not know what to do, so I put it on the box again thinking that I had lost a good money, buying such an impossible game.
About one month later, I started playing again 50% speed, and developed the first way to score: using aftertouch before the penalty spot. A few months later I changed to normal speed, but played on "soggy" so the ball did not run too much.
My friends liked the game too, and competition started. And I loose the 2 first tournements! then, the disk got corrupted...
I spent several months waiting to get the money to buy it again. And I finally did in 1991 (so I bought 3 originals! you damn oracle pirates!)
FEKO was born in september 1992. We tried to arrange an 8 temas league a couple of times, but never played more than 2 days of league. By that time my game got better and better. In 1993-1994 I played complete leagues against computer every evening (from 16:00 to 19:30, every every day), and finally had a record of 98 goals in 14 matches. I was already able of scoring "walk of shame" goals.
By 1994, with the four joysticks cable, I started playing with my friends Great Courts II and Dynablaster battles. KO was a little abandoned because of my never ending victories...
And in 1995, the computer almost died. One of the joystick ports was broken, and we found no way of fixing it. We all tought that FEKO had died too, along with the computer.
But this year, I met one day an old school mate who had an Amiga too. And he sold me his computer (48 e.) and everything started again. When I runned the game, for the 1st time after 7 years, it was one of the most beautiful moments of my life!
And then, looking for KO webs, I found the web of Alkis, and that lead me here. I can not wait until november to be in the World Cup!!!!!!!!!
Long Live KOA
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2002 2:47 pm
1989/90: Played Kick Off 1 on the ST with Riempie until KO2 came out..
1990-1992: Played K02 on the ST with Riempie and played K02 on the A500 at Kees´ with Sjoerd and Evert..
1992 - 2002: Every year I played my KO2 matches on our miggy with Riempie, Kees, Sjoerd and others...
2002 - 20??: I will play more than enough KO2 in the future...
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:35 pm
On 2002-08-05 11:11, alkis21 wrote:
1993: I moved to Patras to study at the University. People were starting to sell their Amigas for PCs, and finding opponents was getting harder. I sold my A500 too, but I bought an A1200.
The weird coincidences of life. In my KO story (to be played at a cinema near you very soon! <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> ) 1993 is the dat i move to Patras as well and stop playing KO! Two quality players, in the same town, in the same year, each not knowing that other exists! Too bad the internet was not so widespread back then but even like that, what were the chances to meet up??
I can oly say this, had me and Alkis met back then with all those free hours to kill playing KO, i cannot dare to imagine the level to which our game would have developed! For us at least, history would have benn re-written!
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2002 3:40 pm
<IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif"> <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif"> <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif"> <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif">
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2002 6:04 pm
Ok guys, you shouldn't have said 'story'. Being an amateur writer I was stirred to write the biggest post ever. This comes with a warning "Only for the VERY patient". If you want to spend 10 mins reading a KO story feel free otherwise you may go to the next post. I'm sure I'll be in for some serious abuse afterwards!!! <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif"> <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif">
Sometime in March 1989: Until that day I'm a happy Amstrad 6128 user fanatically devoted to MatchDay2. That day arrives however. I visit a friend from school who bought an amiga and see the game called Kick Off. It's unique, a revelation, God's gift to a football maniac like me! I play my first game with the comp at the lowest level and a 20 min half and score about 24 goals. I'm already an addict. I never touch MatchDay ever again and spend my days reading KO review in Pixel magazine over and over again.
November 1989: I convince my Dad to buy me an amiga on conditions - my school grades must be kept high! So I limit myself to only an hour's gaming per day (but I still have my weekend! <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">) Needless to say, that hour is spent on playing KO only!
Xmas 1989-New years day 1990: holidays at last! Needless to say I spend much of my free time playing my beloved game. I have my first ever game against a human: my friend Spyros bought an amiga a few weeks after me and is also a KO fan. We end up 2-2! On Jan 1st I organise my first tournament with 8 players, mainly friends from school and neighbours. Apart from me and Spyros, nobody else has an amiga so I easily win the tournament. I have started out as a 4-2-4 man.
January 1990: school starts again and I'm ready for my first challenge. A match against the guy who introduced me to KO in that day of March 1989. A man owning an amiga for a year more than me and playing a full league per day compared to my meagre 4 games. We play 2 games. I win them both: 7-4 and 6-2. He never comes to play me again but the signs for me are good. I have a natural 'feel' for the game! I may become someone good in it…
In the following months I play other guys from school, constantly face Spyros on the weekends and organise a couple of more 8 people tournaments with other amiga users as well. I win them all. Up to that point I have never conceded a single defeat! Not even from Spyros who is trying hard but can only get draws at best. I also train a friend that doesn't own an amiga to play and beat amiga users with a few successful games to show. This earns me a nickname of 'Franz' (From Franz Beckenbauer the then German national team coach, a team that I always supported in international games together with England).
March 1990: in my birthday another tournament is organised. But this time there's a surprise in store! Spyros appears with 5-3-2. Although beaten 4-3 in the group stages, in the final we get a 6-6 draw. A 5 min half will be played as extra time. Disaster! His 5-3-2 shatters my nonexistent defence with counter attacks in a performance that was the stuff of legends. I have my first ever defeat with the embarrassing 8-2 and in front of an audience that until now considered me unbreakable! Spyros leaves celebrating (and with a few gestures to the other guys that supported me J) and I am left to contemplate why the unthinkable happened.
A message was sent: 4-2-4 is weak on the counter. Time to earn my nickname. I revert to 5-3-2 and start practising the moves of my sweeper. A week after the disaster I visit Spyros again. I lose the first game 4-3, win the second 7-3 and the third 10-1. Revenge is sweet! However history has changed. There is now no such thing as 'the undefeated players'. I keep getting loads of victories against various opponents but the odd defeat will arise every now and again and my games against Spyros will always be derby games with a 60-40 split to my favour.
Summer 1990. The amiga is now widespread in Athens and a new game has appeared. Kick Off 2! For me it has an extra feature apart from direct free kicks. After touch! Due to the penalty save bug I never played Extra Time. But KO2 has everything, it's a much better game and the keeper is a bastard! (at least that's what I thought that very first time!) Kick Off I goes in the drawer, long live KO2! The conservatives in my friends' group are slowly swayed, KO2 is now our game for practice and tournaments, the scores are lower at the moment - but that is bound to change soon.
Maturity - Glory Days!
1991-1993: Half the population in my school owns an amiga. Everyone is playing KO2! Plenty of opposition to chose from. My gaming has evolved and is greatly due to the aftertouch and superior control of KO2. Simple KO2? No. It was only bound to survive a few months. When KO2- 1 meg, v.16 came out, the older (Oracle) copy went in the drawer with KO1 and overhead kicks are the new trick among quality players. I design and use my own PM tactics for a while but it spoils any sense of competition so it goes off the window. My friends and I create FOKO (Federation of Kick Off) and in an attempt to play FIFA (not the game - the association) we build a bunch of rules including everything, even swearing or mocking your opponents. We have a ranking system (but not as complicated as Swifty's!) and points are taken out when rules are broken. The fun is starting to wither so rules go off the window in a couple of months. We play with international teams, change lineups, use a different pitch once in a while, include wind even less often but the fun is skyrocketing. And so is my gaming. I am now renowned in my school and start getting challenges from the neighbouring school - everyone wants a shot at me, same rules apply however "play with the best, loose like the rest"! My sweeper is the strong point of my game and no5 gets the glory of the real Franz Beckenbauer. I play KO bets for money - I win but then quit this nasty habit. And still I'm sporting the same KO practice habits: 4 games a day! A miracle in itself considering I defeat players who spend hours of gaming. Between 1991-1992 I spend a whole year without a single defeat going back to my KO begginings - and still using the same old joystick! I play everyone I remotely know who claims to be a KO player and defeat them. Friends bring their friends to play with me - I still win.I turn scores around even in 2x3 games. Is there anyone to give me just a single defeat? (in fact there is at least one - but Alkis and myself are strangers in the same town and fate decides that we don't meet).
In the greek TV, a show dedicated to computers is born. They organise an amiga KO tournament shown on TV. Alas, they picked the contestants themselves, without an open invitation. I watch a guy win an amiga as trophy and know I would have easily beaten him if I had been there. Pixel magazine (same guys that had the tv show) organises a best goal competition. I prepare a disk which among other things contains my pride and joy: a goal where I 'walk it in' after having passed a few more players from midfield. Again the competition is a setup and my goal doesn't get even in top-3. The winner is a PB dribbling so lame that would make Rikki Fullarton laugh for weeks. Runty! Another magazine mentions a 'greek tournament'. Elated I send a letter but get no reply or ever read about it again - the magazine stops being published a month later. Could it have been the same tournament Alkis won? Fate again decides we don't meet.
September 1993: I move to Patras to study in the Uni. My amiga stays behind. I only play KO in Xmas or Easter vacations. During that time, AEK Athens play zonal defence in real football. A new tactics is born for me: 4-4-2. I will play zonal defence like my beloved team. The attack of the tactics is awesome and in my leagues I destroy the computer. Defence is a problem and takes a lot of getting used to. I still play with Spyros who manages to get more victories by taking advantage of my mistakes - no matter, I will learn to play zonal defence and the competition makes the game more interesting. In September 1995, Spyros, my last remaining friend that plays KO leaves for the UK. We face each other for 3-5 games during vacations when we manage to meet but that is all. Decline. My 4-4-2 however flourishes, even with the minimal amount of practice I get every 4 months. I break my goalscoring records against the computer during the course of a league. My best score in a single game is still 16-0. However, my interest is diclining together with the new interests and the lack of opponents.
June 1998: I am about to leave greece and go to Cyprus for military service. Spyros is already installed and happily living in the UK. Our road of famous duels has reached a final point. We decide to play only 1 last game as a farewell to arms. Fate decides that S.Screech is the referee. In a legendary game Spyros manages a 6-5 win, finishing with only 7 players and punishing me with long shots! That was our finale and I now wrote: THE END
A New Hope!
In November 2001, now being in the UK for a whole year, I am looking for a site to download Eye of the Beholder 2 for PC. In that site, a copy of KO2 for PC is also given. I laugh at it of course but spot an interesting link in the bottom: Ultimate Kick Off. What is that? I follow the link to the old KO site. Amazement. There are KO forums. Are there still KO players? I enter the forum 3 days before something that waas the dream I had for a lifetime of KO gaming: A KO World Cup. Right here! In the UK! In Dartford. There is a poll on who will win the World Cup. Having read only a few posts I cast my vote: Alkis21. I am correct! This community is comprised of real quality players and fun characters, all in one package! I join in, immediately order an a1200 from ebay which I manage to win literally in the last 10 seconds! Steve Camber sends me a KO disk (Oracle! <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif"> ) But I cannot practice. The joystick that came with it is horrible (zipstick). I am amazed people use this shite, this is totally wrong! So I have to wait until Xmas to go to greece and get my old weapon, now aged 12, so I can start gaming. A greek tournament is organised the next day of my arrival to Greece and Vasilis and Alkis invite me. An opportunity not to be missed. With 2 hours of practice in the morning I go to play with the World Champ and his friends. I know I have no chance but a good effort may get me some respect. For the first time I take part in a full league - a competition I considered and still consider boring as hell. I only manage 4th behind Alkis,George and Vasilis but I pride myself for managing 3 friendly draws with the Champ and a 6-5 defeat in which I fought hard, came back from 3 goal deficit twice and could have made George the winner but my last cross was not meant to happen. The players were true quality, equal or even better than me, but most important fun characters as well so I had to join this community.
My chance to meet the UK crew would come in the UK championship. In between, I invited for a few games in my place the 'scoundrel' of the KOA: Rikki Fullarton. A man who claimed to be unbeatable in KO and with a weird sense of humour that alienated him from everyone in the KOA. We played 23 games and he managed 1 more win than myself-more than anyone had ever managed to do in a lifetime. He was flesh and blood after all, just like I though. But he was also unique. His style of play was something taken out of dreams, immaculate dribbling and control and relentless attack. And underneath the craziness, the guy was alright and not the devil most people presented him to be. I wrote my first huge post in the KOA saying what I felt and hope that it had at least something to do with him being accepted among our group of friends.
Gloucester was the best organised event I've ever been to. With my TV burned for a whole week I went there without practice but wouldn't miss it for the world. It was excellent! My first day started really slow but in the afternoon I was really on fire and in the derby match I easily beat Rikki 5-1, being 5-0 at half time. Robert Swift also experienced some of my finishing in an 11-3 win, taking revenge on his dive that cost me the previous London Gathering. That also earned me my new nickname: the Terminator. Which was to be confirmed the second day. Strting slow again, I was unlucky to meet 'the German' Steve Camber in my 2nd match. I lost. I was now on same points with Rikki but he had a +10 goal difference. British rule said goal difference counts and not games between opponents like in Europe. Was all lost? Simon Butt was first to support me: it can be done. An it was true. In my best ever performance I unleashed a goalscoring storm with no precedence, hitting double figure scores with players that ranked in the top 10 and a stressful 2-1 victory over Vin in the last 20 secs that provided another classic moment in our UK meetings. In the last game, me and Rikki had the same goal difference. He played D.Secker, won 7-4. All I needed was a 4 goal win against Andy Ellis. It wasn't meant to be. The score was 4-2, Rikki was fallen on Durb's lap and I was the first to pick him up and congratulate him for the title. Like in the past, my biggest rival in the UK was my good friend again. But I paid him no respect in the cup and in 'you only get one chance' games, I managed to get myself one more title, together with the top goalscorer.
Thinking about it now, I think my greatest gain from that gathering was the friends I made. The KOA people were cool and fun and despite our love for KO, we could still hang out and have more than a few laughs. The community was worth being a part of!
And it was proved in the next months. Heated debates of rules and regulations threatened to spoil friendships that at least for me came out stronger than before. My interest in the game however waned and I stopped playing again in May after the last London Gathering.
The present & the future?:
August 2002: I couldn't miss the WC however, not again, so the old weapon is out of the closet and practising is resumed, even sparingly. Besides, when did I ever really practice in KO? The next Glos and WC will be the great chance to meet my friends again as well as compete in my beloved game. Being older now, not the man I was in the 90's, the fun is what this is all about, this is the real reason for the community. The KOA still has the silly rules that send KO back in 1989 J but it's the people that make it strong and I'm happy to call each and every one of them my friends. So even if I lose my interest in KO, I'll still know that I have someone to have a pint with and a few laughs. (and still debate over the same rules in 10 years! <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> )