WCC rules

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alkis21
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Postby alkis21 » Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:51 pm

People don't seem to get it so let me try and rephrase this.
In the previous world cups, there was no real way of deciding things. There were only two ways:

1) If nobody discussed a rule and it was more or less kept silent, the organizer did as he pleased.

2) If a rule was discussed, the people who SHOUTED the most got what they wanted.

I don't want something like the Cologne world cup where the so called 'veto' was enforced to the whole KOA because only THREE people out of 63 wanted it.

Newbies and other people who have not followed the KOA way closely can keep saying "it's simple, let's vote" but I say try to hold a voting process and see for yourself whether it's simple or not.

Perhaps Marco's proposal is a bit too bureaucratic for people's liking, and perhaps it doesn't need to be that much, but something has to be done.
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Postby uncle_colin » Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:58 pm

alkis21 wrote:John, all you and 95% of the KOA do is just show up at a tournament with your joystick and everything is ready for you to play. Now there is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is for you to assume that everything is "so simple". There is a huge amount of work involved, usually taken care by less than a handful of people. I don't see any harm in putting some order to the chaos.


I'm not in the frame of mind that 'everything is so simple' when i turn up to a tournement. I was really impressed with how things were organised at the last world cup. I could never do it myself, I really admred Robert and others for putting on a good show. I also agree that each world cup should be consistent in it's format. But I'm sorry, I just thought Stox's post was way over the top, yes there should be a system, but jesus, cast the bureaucratic bullshit aside please!

As for the format, I don't really see how you can have a 'set' format anyway, when there will always be people who drop out pre-tournement, and different numbers of attendees each year.
Last edited by uncle_colin on Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby alkis21 » Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:06 pm

uncle_colin wrote:we just need to speak to each other calmly and decide over the coming months what the best plan is.


See, that's where the plan fails. :lol:
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Postby uncle_colin » Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:25 pm

alkis21 wrote:
uncle_colin wrote:we just need to speak to each other calmly and decide over the coming months what the best plan is.


See, that's where the plan fails. :lol:


Yeah, hence my edit!
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Postby Freshmaker » Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:13 pm

Hmmm... What all previous posters said... :roll:

I agree that we need some order in the chaos, but we don't need all the rules in the initial post.

I'd rather say that those who wanna take part in organising with rules and draws and stuff raise their hand. The KOA let them do so, agreeing to their way of doing it. And if we combine that with co-operation between this gruop and the organiser of a World Cup I think we've got a success.
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Postby stox » Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm

I'd rather say that those who wanna take part in organising with rules and draws and stuff raise their hand. The KOA let them do so, agreeing to their way of doing it.


i disagree with this. This is the old method, where people raises his hands only if the rule is of his interest and then afterwards vanishes, where who speak out loud things wins on rule desicions or blocks innovation, where nobody knows who is in charge to take desicions and where the organizer has all the ultmate power to make it as he wants to... where the format changes accordingly to the organizers heart and where at the end only fights prevail.

Notonly the organizer should be responsible of the event, other persons of the KOA should feel the same, every year, in order to work on the world cup. How can i promote seriously the WC in Rome (if chosen) on radio if I have also to say "folks come to that pub to join the comunity. we are 100s of disorganized fellows who makes WC for fun and this is only a game so do not bother on these things". We have to give importance to what were doing here, and sincerely its a game but the KOA should not be a game.

I'm really dreaming about sponsors and fundings one day! :roll:
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Postby Freshmaker » Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:54 pm

You misunderstood me Stoxy. Yes, we should have a proper format, but I don't want a chairman and vice-chairman and stuff. Robert, Sascha, Alkis and the other guys have done great jobs hosting WC's. We should continue the work they have started, and that means that they should be in an "organiser-group" together with other devoted members and the host of the WC.
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Postby filippodb » Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:14 pm

I would love an experienced "committee" just for the seedings problems, the organization of leagues on day 1, the organization of playoff - playout - koa cup on day 2 and all the other logistic decisions that only experienced members should be able to solve.

For the game rules I don't really like to end up with few funny members to decide for everything.
the way was managed this year was excellent, only who play the WC has the right to vote, the majority wins, no need to fight.
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Postby Freshmaker » Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:54 pm

Shit. I feel so dirty... I agree with Filippo.... :shock:
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Re: WCC rules

Postby Rodolfo » Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:13 pm

Let's pretend I take all this seriously. I always thought that there is no use in writing rules when just do not exist the power to make anyone obbey, but ok...


stox wrote:Every KOA member can express one vote for one candidate from its own zone. The following zones will elect member(s):

England - 2 members
Greece - 1 member
Holland - 1 member
Scandinavia - 1 member
Germany - 1 member
Milan - 1 member
Rome - 1 member



Then I may have to say a couple of things about this asignation of committe members. There are some number of members elected by each country - except Italy. The 3(?) players(?) (when do you really play??? or is it that you just do not bother posting the results) of Rome get the same "power" as all Germany. Nice. We need rules for everyone, but privileges for me.

Also mind that there is a funny country called Spain... can I have the right to vote please? or should I join FAKO? (oh, by the way, I would love to!)

We may all have a plan of how to run the KOA, but there is no power to do it. We all know that even if a huge majority would adopt some rule today, that does not mean that mostly the same people would not want to change their option tomorrow. I insist, there is no power to enforce any agreement.

As much as I try to appreciate this effort I can not help finding it flawed and, above all, pointless. This attemp of organizing things is neither demanded, nor needed. So what we have left, anarchy? Well, the wild jungle laws may be cruel at times, but at least are true, sincere and realistic.
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Postby stox » Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:52 pm

the way was managed this year was excellent, only who play the WC has the right to vote, the majority wins, no need to fight.


And how will you for example introduce ET with this system, since it should be decided NOW if we want to use them officially NEXT year? or must we wait TWO years in order to introduce them in day 1 as it happens since now, slowing down innovation each time in the major tournament?

Well, the wild jungle laws may be cruel at times, but at least are true, sincere and realistic.


Its not a problem to be cruel, its a problem to put the organizer in a position to not make things seriously. I immidiatly say you that it is impossible to me to organize the things I have in mind without a serious involved organizing group and with few months. If you want the always good hostel - rented room - few amigas tournament I will organize this in 1 month ok, before you attack me on this statement I know this is not simple so I exaggerated it a bit, ok? :oops: ). If you want some more meat on the fire, we have to organize stronger and get out from the jungle!

Ah, for the member numbers of Rome you're right, we must make it differently...
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Postby filippodb » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:17 am

stox wrote:
the way was managed this year was excellent, only who play the WC has the right to vote, the majority wins, no need to fight.


And how will you for example introduce ET with this system, since it should be decided NOW if we want to use them officially NEXT year? or must we wait TWO years in order to introduce them in day 1 as it happens since now, slowing down innovation each time in the major tournament?


Final decision should be made before the WC with all the players involved, Not 12 months in advance with few members that maybe won't even attend to the gathering.
Maybe the timing for the final decision (weeks before the WC) should be decided by an experienced committee since it's a pretty logistic problem.
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Postby stox » Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:40 am

Maybe the timing for the final decision (weeks before the WC) should be decided by an experienced committee since it's a pretty logistic problem.

All quiet on the western front. ET in this way will not be used, and every thing must wait two years to be adopted. Not because users do not want ET since many agrees, but in order to communicate the users that we will use them without that the KOA members feels to be treated unfairly. Wondering why this forum exsists if it is not possible to communicate nothing to the comunity.
IMO not the fastest method to make changes in the game rules...

PS: at least 8 weeks before WC the desicion must be taken (main training session times for WC). If you take it before some local tournaments will have ETs too. I invite everybody to introduce ETs in their local tournaments and to report here impressions.
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