A REVIEW OF DAY 2

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A REVIEW OF DAY 2

Postby stox » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:56 pm

Hi all, as promised I write down this very long post about what happened on day2. I have to. Also I fully agree with what Robert say, that is the weekend is over and let's go on, I must post this complain on day 2 for several reasons:
1. Gianni posts on the forum before WC to know the day2 format, the format was never given to be known
2. I told in front of the whole audience that on the tabe there was something wrong, and Robert answered to me laughing: we know this! Ok, I see how you noticed was what wrong, the pub in rickmansworth is more capable to organize the dart tournament as you KO day2 world cups.
3. Don't like the behaviour of Sasha, I have seen him several times to others mimic im making "blablabla" (that means do not bother about what his saying). I do not like the behaviour because there was an error and beside who made the mistake, you have to face it without thinking that saying to others I'm making balblabla youre all right.

Beside this day2 was a disaster to me: first of all i failed to get a lift to the barn (meaning i had to make autostop), i was again hungry without getting nothing before 1pm, and was upset by this. I lost all my agmes, so was really not the best day.
there will be no complain about the location, far away from every grocery of the city, and the voerall organization, also there could be some. The problem in these things is that if you organize these events, you had to do it professionally. I know this is all spare time you have invested, on the other hand, once you had to do it, make it best!
So: no complain about location and so on, but the missed table of day2 is a huge heavy error you all made. And this cannot be excused by "this is a hobby" argument, because I will never move again 1000s of km for less than amateur organized tournaments.

Ok, let analyze now day2:

first round is ok, the principle was applied to let AB and CD groups meet together. Ok with this, first round fully acknowledged.
second round, the mess! Insted of crossmixing AB with CD, Robert (giving to Sasha a completly missed day 2 format) or Sasha (making some linear piramidial straight forward routine programming) continue to maintain AB and CD separated from each other till the end. With the infamous Swift format, you cannot meet players from other groups if not the one of round1, and in order to meet AT LEAST an other player, tou must HOPE to win (or loose) your game while the other have to loose (or win) his. Other combinations leeds to meet your groupmates again.
Now I want to say one damn thing: once it was clear the format was crap, and the software was crap, why did you not switched off the computer and make the round right on paper? Why do you have said that you want to let us meet as many opponents as possible and than the Swift format allows me to see in revenge matches my group mates again? No sense!!!!

Ok games were played out, Spyros is the World champ, congrats to him, and so on. We all know what happened, but what would have happened without the infamous Swift format?

Lets have a look:

As said round one ok, lets go to round 2.
The fixtures should have been as followed, if you CORRECLTY crossmix positions.

Spyros vs martin J
Klaus Lo vs Mario F
Michael O vs Alkis P
GianniT vs Marco D

Lets have a look at this. First of all you see that 3 italians would have NEVER reached semifinals. 2 games of this round were between group mates and this at quarter finals. MarcoD managed to invert the positions here beating Alkis (also if he was beated by Alkis in the qualiying) Spyros maintained his position.
Would have Alkis lost to MichaelO as he did to MarcoD? We will never know.

JohnH vs Danc
BenG vs SimonB
SteveC vs NikosA
JohnG vs MartinB

Much different of that was played. Also here two games of groupmates could be avoided.

Thing become worser on 17-32 where 5 games of 8 where revenge matches!!!!! 5 games of 8, a shame....

In reality it should be:
Sasha vs KnutL
ThomasK vs BenC
NickP vs RobertS (Look at this, probably NickP wouldnt have never reached 24th but below)
JamesB vs JacobK

and

Rodolfo vs MaurizioL
OliverS vs StefanV (this would have been very funny LOL)
AlexB vs MarcoS (alex, since you manage to beat me, know that you can thank the infamous Swift format if you didnt arrive 24th or better!)
WayneL vs Glenn

and so on. I stop here. You see the big mess:

1. the final positions of the world cup are crap, and should not be so. some have taken advantage of the Swift format, some great disadvantage. 3 italians reached semifinals and this shouldn't be. Gianni and Spyros should NOT HAVE MET BEFORE FINALS... what a pitty, the semifinal between the two was the best shown matches, loved it as final as it has to be and not as semifinal!
2. many games were played among group mates, more than 50%. Thank you to make this format in order to face as much different opponents as possible. We sacrified the x2 matches at the day1 in order to avoid revenge matches, so I'm glad to see that you managed to make the x2 games on day2 instead. GRRRRRRRRRR!

PS: one more thing, the KOA CUP CRAP! never hear a bad argument like that, probably you wanted to let win the hongkong guy and this is ok, but com'on, why should the KOA CUP go to the 25th? It should have been assigned to the 17th or the 33rd! And, beside this MaurizioL never knew fighting for the KOA CUP, this is not honest!

I want to end this post sincerely thanking Robert. He made mistakes, Sasha probably did, so be man enough to say I'm sorry and it is ok. I had fun in London, at the WC and I'm greatful for this truely.
But I want to underline that also in hobbies there must be a professioalism in making the things. If you showed us before the day2 format we surely would have discussed it and avoided this crap. If you had test the software 10 mins the night before you would have become aware on this. And once the problem is there, you had to turn off the computer and stop this nonsense insted of following the format proposed by a idiotic routine. This is not excusable, beacuse the lazyness was the main reason for this, and then you made nothing to avoid all this. You just let play wrong games, instead taking care to make things right again. I do not like this kind of behaviour (also if I can justify it that you were tired and wanted to finish the WC as soon as possible) and will ever fight against this!
Marco S. alias Stox

Missed WC 2011, 2010 and 2009: this should stop in future; WC 2008 placed 29th; WC2007 placed 15th (CO-ORGANIZER OF THE WORLDCUP); WC2006 placed 32th; WC2005 placed 24th
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Postby Sascha » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:14 pm

I am not going to say much to this :lol:

Just that:

It is right, I made the "bla bla bla"-sign. This was because I do not respect you much anymore, I must admit. And this is not because you critcised me but:

You went up to people (behind my back) and told them what I terrible job I did and that I would be too lazy to do my job, what an idiot I was. Do you really think that people dont tell me such things???

I worked a lot of hours on the tables and the only mistake was when suddenly some fixtures were mixed up. I know by now what was the "mistake" (posted elsewhere). The qay the fixtures are played was intended like that and no error at all. If people didnt like it - fine - its very easy to change it for next years WC.

I am trying to not take you too serious, you seem to be a little frustrated. But critcising people (esp. Robert!!!) after they spent so much time on this is more than silly! For you it was easy: Plug and Play World Cup!
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Postby Thowra » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:23 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: This is hilarious!! How pathetic can one person get??
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Postby Sascha » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:30 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The good thing is, that you can not really be angry as one could be after reading these lines.

I rather feel sorry for him...
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Postby stox » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:31 pm

Sure I knew that you will be aware of this, I was very upset and I think I was shouting loud saying everybody the crap that was happaning. So there was no secret! many people were upset, but will not write on this forum and will only say thank you. I'm not considering the time you spent, but I'm considering two things and this has to do with professionalism of what you make ALSO in spare time:
1. making software introduced errors, BETA TESTING WAS NECCESSARY.
2. if you see the error, OR SOMEONE LET YOU NOTICE YOU ABOUT THIS, correct it immidiatly instead going on.

I have pointed it out seeing the table 1 minute. The organizators said to me: we know about this AH AH AH AH (laughing!), and then seeing that you do not make anything you really think I'm not upset?

This is why I do not respect you Sasha, if you were my coworker for me you were fired immidialtly also if talented, intelligent (i really believe you are!) and zelant. But this may not be sufficient.

I invite more forum members to express themself since im NOT THE ONLY FOOL HERE COMPLAINING ON THIS. And please, admit your error and say sorry. i can paint the wall of my girlfriend red for 6 hours, but i guess that if she asked me blue walls she will not be happy about results even I spent this much time. No one asked you for the software!
Marco S. alias Stox

Missed WC 2011, 2010 and 2009: this should stop in future; WC 2008 placed 29th; WC2007 placed 15th (CO-ORGANIZER OF THE WORLDCUP); WC2006 placed 32th; WC2005 placed 24th
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Re: A REVIEW OF DAY 2

Postby Thowra » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:38 pm

stox wrote: first of all i failed to get a lift to the barn (meaning i had to make autostop)

Maybe you didn't get a lift to the barn because you would have sat on the back seat of the car complaining about how the person was driving and telling everyone else that you could drive more "professionally"
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Postby Sascha » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:50 pm

I do not know how to put it in words that you understand.

The format was NO mistake. It was INTENDED that way! The mistake we noticed on Day 2 (and the one that Robert ment most likely) was when for instance suddenly Steve C and Michael O switched places in Round 2.

This was due to manually "resolving backward references" before the 2nd games were played. I did not know this was the reason until yesterday, but was able to manually rearrange the matches within about 10 minutes. I am sorry for this mistake, but I think it could have been sorted out quite quick!

And btw.:
I am not a professional programmer. I bought a book about PHP for last years WC. If people would look at my code they might probably laugh at me! But up to today people liked the tables and I still think they liked the Day 2-tables!

It is always easy to critcize people if all you have done was buying a ticket for the plane!

If you dont like the software you are more than welcome to program your own one. This would mean I will have a Plug and Play World Cup then :)
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Postby stox » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:56 pm

Maybe you didn't get a lift to the barn because you would have sat on the back seat of the car complaining about how the person was driving and telling everyone else that you could drive more "professionally"


very funny indeed, you have not done the autostop in order to get to then barn. the situation is determined by the far location from the hotel and the city but will not compain about this.

.... saw this several times, and do not know why: I'm wrong and Sasha right altought the mess is and was done. For me ok, for sure without appropiate beta testing the software of sashe will not be used eventually in Rome07, but I can imagine that you now will reply: there will be no Rome07 don't bother or sasha will say he will not gove the software to me because im not grateful and so on.
never mind folks.

I know that I'm right, i have tried to make a discussion about this. The only thing I see are children that didn't reach the age of 12 defending themself about the mess they made. its ok, so no problem with me on that.

One more thing, i do not like also the layout of the table on day2, you were not aware for what positions you were fighting. Since it doesnt matter, will add this critic too to my long list.

I needed a great torunament, not a great and crappy software. this should be clear to all. the priority should have been the torunament, not the graphical device! and let me say that the sisutation was handled very bad, not by what i call professionals: swift had to stop and shut down the software. not difficult to see that i'm right on this.
Marco S. alias Stox

Missed WC 2011, 2010 and 2009: this should stop in future; WC 2008 placed 29th; WC2007 placed 15th (CO-ORGANIZER OF THE WORLDCUP); WC2006 placed 32th; WC2005 placed 24th
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Postby Ely » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:19 pm

Jeez Stox give it a fucking rest!
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Postby Sascha » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:31 pm

stox wrote:One more thing, i do not like also the layout of the table on day2, you were not aware for what positions you were fighting. Since it doesnt matter, will add this critic too to my long list.


You are more than welcome to develope an own Day 2 table.
Prerequisites:

Tables with, match number, both names, results for both matches.
This for the 3 leagues. Plus League of Shame with up to 10 Players (as the league of Shame was cancelled, I instead installed the Top Rankings in the Top Right corner.
Plus the 5 best scorers and Best Defense.
The final rankings of 48 Players

All this on a 1024x768 screen (projector restrictions) in a readable manner.
I worked about 6 hours on this issue. I am sure you get it in 2, Scotty! :)

Oh, and the name "Alessandro Q" must fit in the tables! If Alessandro would only know how often I wrote his name in the last week :)

You can email me your result to info@kickoff2.com

HTML of course...

Thank you in advance...
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Postby Thowra » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:38 pm

stox wrote:
Maybe you didn't get a lift to the barn because you would have sat on the back seat of the car complaining about how the person was driving and telling everyone else that you could drive more "professionally"


very funny indeed, you have not done the autostop in order to get to then barn. the situation is determined by the far location from the hotel and the city but will not compain about this.

I am glad you are not complaining about the distance. For a moment there, I thought you were.... just for a moment....
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Postby Steve Camber » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:42 pm

What Ely said!
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Postby Abyss » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:50 pm

Let me just say my opinion. I have expressed to Sascha my admiration for the software in Cologne. As far as I know, Sascha hadn't written the actual software, but the html/php presentation. This was a fantastic way to present results, compared to previous tournamens. This year, it was even more aesthetically pleasing, and it was a major feat managing to fit all that info in one screen. Maybe (to protect projectors as well!), we could find a way to alternate on-screen information, so that we can display even more stats etc.

Now, there was actually a little mistake pairing the opponents on Sunday, but it was quickly identified and corrected. That was the only "mistake" in the software.

However, I do agree that the way the groups were crossed on Sunday was wrong. After we had the A1 - B4 game, there was no reason to go again for the winner of the A2-B3, which, in most cases, would mean that we were going to have a A1-A2 game again, as happenned, e.g. between me and Klaus. This should have been crossed with a different group (C2-B3) and I agree with Marco on that. I do find however his rhetoric a bit too much for this forum (well, Claire's reply was also offensive). Please try not to keep it personal. It never helps.
Last edited by Abyss on Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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